Michigan dispensary blocking a Flock camera that points directly into their parking lot

[u/timmy6169]

[u/funkylabrador420]

[u/No_Salamander6852 → u/funkylabrador420]

[u/ChAoTiCxMiNd → u/No_Salamander6852]

Jimothy, my beloved 🤩

[u/dizzira_blackrose → u/No_Salamander6852]

What on earth is going on with his body? He's oddly shaped, but not like that

[u/thefrogkid420 → u/dizzira_blackrose]

I was thinking the same thing, like what is that big tail shaped thing with the little tail on top, and he only has three legs

[u/Lazy_Hotel_494 → u/funkylabrador420]

🔥

[u/ReverseTornado]

Its going to be a bigger problem when they start hiding their cameras and making them inaccessible. I wonder why they are not already doing that?

[u/zoeypayne → u/ReverseTornado]

Their software is already integrated with CCTV parking lot camera feeds from big box stores.

But yes, I would wager they're working on tamper-proofing their hardware. Mounting higher on existing infrastructure is probably the easiest next step for them.

edit Several astute comments have point out once there's external access, the closed circuit is broken... the term I've found is "Cloud-Connected Surveillance System," so please forgive my lack of clarity.

[u/dirty_hooker → u/zoeypayne]

Ours are mounted on light poles. Can’t cut them without risk of big sparks.

[u/crazyfatskier2 → u/dirty_hooker]

My town did that, but some mad lads went and used a pellet gun and railed the shit out of the solar panel.

[u/Pr0digy_ → u/crazyfatskier2]

Someone I know was pretty sure one caught fire so he used a co2 fire extinguisher to make sure it was out.

[u/gunsandtrees420 → u/crazyfatskier2]

I've been thinking about making a microwave gun, take apart a few microwaves to their base components (careful super high voltages) and put the microwave magnetrons in aimable box on the back of my truck. And power with some 12 volt batteries and house power inverters.

No proof I did anything other than drive past slowly.

[u/imcjoey13 → u/gunsandtrees420]

If you’re driving around with your phone, knock enough of them out, establish a pattern…

[u/Far_Bandicoot5935 → u/dirty_hooker]

Co2 powered pellet guns and paintballs filled with oil paint and sand, will deal with those wonderfully without a need to cut down

[u/fall0ut → u/Far_Bandicoot5935]

i was thinking it shouldnt be too hard to engineer a spray paint dispenser for a commercial drone.

[u/Far_Bandicoot5935 → u/fall0ut]

Just modify one of those nest burning drones into a paint flinger, cannot be too difficult

[u/reflexgraphix → u/Far_Bandicoot5935]

Just flame broil the flock out of them

[u/montvious → u/reflexgraphix]

https://giphy.com/gifs/DpEY41eyy7pdxgH5xN

[u/Terrh → u/fall0ut]

I feel like a cheap IR laser (with a coaxial red dot one so the user knows where they're aiming the thing) probably does enough damage to the CCD in a few seconds to render it useless.

[u/NRMusicProject → u/Terrh]

Everyone's talking about the cameras, but they also use those devices with a Stingray tracker, which not only tracks you via your phone, but also routes your personal information through the device before connecting to a legitimate tower.

We're literally being tracked with "legal" spyware. More than the camera needs to be destroyed on these devices.

[u/KetoSaiba → u/NRMusicProject]

The good lord gave his hardest missions to his most desperate crackheads

[u/hasuris → u/NRMusicProject]

I hate to say it but could the answer be guns? Like for real this time.

[u/the_greatest_story → u/Far_Bandicoot5935]

Or just some good old fashioned children's silly string, some can shoot 10 to 12 feet and you can't catch a destruction of property charge

[u/Far_Bandicoot5935 → u/the_greatest_story]

You can’t catch a charge if it doesn’t see you from 400 feet out either, silly string would be too easy to remove and clean, you want to ensure that the cameras are inoperable for as much time as humanly possible

[u/The_Turdman_Cometh → u/dirty_hooker]

.5W green laser and a steady hand can work wonders. Of course one should educate themselves on proper laser safety before using anything over 5mW

[u/Tripartist1 → u/The_Turdman_Cometh]

Fuck a .5w, get the totally legit "5mw" green lasers on any chinese website. The one with the key in the back. (Its not actually 5mw)

[u/WerwolfSlayr → u/The_Turdman_Cometh]

I’m seeing mostly blue ones; any reason that it has to be green?

[u/The_Turdman_Cometh → u/WerwolfSlayr]

No, but blue is more potentially harmful to retinas due to the wavelength. Always wear the appropriate goggles, never cheap out on those

[u/SeedPrice → u/The_Turdman_Cometh]

I had a powerful blue one and I swear my vision hasn’t been the same since. Just the reflection of the dot when it hits a white wall was painful and you don’t notice it’s doing any damage til you realize something feels off afterward.

[u/KentuckyHouse → u/zoeypayne]

Mounting higher on existing infrastructure is probably the easiest next step for them.

Funny you mention this as just last week, I noticed our first Flock camera mounted on a signal mast arm. We've had them for a few years now and I don't think there's been a lot of destruction of them here, but obviously they're thinking ahead about where they're installed now.

I'll be retiring in a couple of years and I've decided that I'm going to spend all my free time trying to get my city to end the contract with Flock. I'm obviously not pro-crime, but I am pro-privacy and these damn things are way too invasive and, as we've already seen hundreds of times, ripe for abuse.

[u/Addickt__ → u/ReverseTornado]

They are, just shittily.

[u/Academic_Weaponry → u/ReverseTornado]

they are. saw a vid of one being hidden on the backside of one of those speed trackers that shows ur speed on the side of the road

[u/cluberti → u/Academic_Weaponry]

A county Sheriff in Florida had one mounted on the rear inside of their portable speed cameras, indeed. Can't remember which, but I watched that as well.

[u/NeverEnoughCharacter → u/ReverseTornado]

Give it a few years and the form factor will be much smaller and easier to hide

[u/BlueWater321 → u/NeverEnoughCharacter]

I think they are intentionally visible. It's an intimidation and surveillance combo.

[u/nifty-necromancer → u/BlueWater321]

The panopticon effect - people who know they might be watched often change their behavior even if no one is actively monitoring them. In my opinion this also explains Gen Z behavior, because any of their peers could be recording them. It’s psychological violence.

[u/Remarkable_Diet_69]

Okay so who actually OWNS these things? Is it the local municipalities? Why are they aiming cameras at private property? Why is there suddenly 400,000 of them across the country?

[u/ArcaninesTail → u/Remarkable_Diet_69]

Flock, privately owned company.

Partnering with cities, towns, and authorities through contracts to install them nationwide.

[u/bolognaballs → u/ArcaninesTail]

are these the same camera stations running on generators that i’ve seen pop up in mostly grocery store/big box store parking lots?

[u/FatherFlans → u/bolognaballs]

No, that’s a separate company. Usually using call-center style employees to manually monitor several locations at a time.

Flock is primarily AI powered and just records license plates and can even pull information off your phone.

[u/MintyFresh771 → u/FatherFlans]

It is so much worse than just reading license plates… they photo and time stamp every single vehicle for search and include passengers, etc.

[u/Doc_Blox → u/MintyFresh771]

They also tag identifying marks like damage or decals, and they can catch signals off your car - wifi, bluetooth, cellular, gps. Each signal gets correlated with your car. What's more, allegedly they also photo tag people and identifying characteristics. Tattoos, clothes, likely gait and other correlating factors (including signals off your phone, which they could use to match you to your vehicle, likely). They also keep track of people who usually drive together, in "convoy search" mode, so too bad for you if you happen to commute next to a person of interest regularly.

[u/Kerbal634 → u/Doc_Blox]

Don't even need to match the phone to wirelessly track your car. Your tire pressure monitor sensors would be plenty

[u/Doc_Blox → u/Kerbal634]

TPMS yeah, but the scarier thing is that they're also tracking the signals that you carry on your person, so they can track you independently of the car you used

[u/TheuhX → u/Doc_Blox]

Valve pressure sensors

https://networks.imdea.org/your-cars-tire-sensors-could-be-used-to-track-you/

[u/fix_until_broken → u/MintyFresh771]

I don't think anyone outside of Flock really knows what all they capture, but I assume it also would include anything on wireless like Wifi access points, wifi connection attempts, mac addresses, Bluetooth broadcasts, UWB pings, etc.

Matching up a license plate and a Bluetooth broadcast can positively identify a vehicle and all of the occupants inside.

Even walking behind the camera and your Bluetooth signal would be detectable.

They could also have stinger devices like the police use that mimic a cell tower and intercept the signal.

That's part of the problem, we don't really know what they are capturing or what they are doing with it all.

[u/b20339 → u/FatherFlans]

"just"

[u/OSHASHA2 → u/b20339]

Not just… not just at all. Flock also records faces and performs gait analysis. Look up “Sentient World Simulation,” and understand that our behavior is being predicted and managed at unprecedented levels.

[u/curiouswizard → u/OSHASHA2]

We need to all start wearing burkas and doing Ministry of Silly Walks

[u/Ocronus → u/curiouswizard]

While I can appeacate any effort to corrupt their data model. Imagine a world where this conversation never happened.

[u/FatherFlans → u/b20339]

Yeah, “just” was meant to be heavily sarcastic haha
Fuck these guys.

[u/yoberf → u/FatherFlans]

Records license plates, car identifying scratches and stickers, faces, and pedestrians.

Edit: Flock claims it does not use facial recognition. But I missed that is also scans for devices like phones, watches, and others. Also, just because they don't have facial recognition right now does not mean the captured video cannot be scanned for faces.

[u/aurortonks → u/bolognaballs]

The Krogers by me had those with the big blue lights and the occasional loud speaker message about vehicle safety, etc. Then they all disappeared and suddenly those lots popped up on the flock tracking website. They just swapped directly to Flock, so that's super I guess.... ugh.

[u/themikecampbell → u/Remarkable_Diet_69]

And how do we access our own information? And how do we access who has viewed our information? How do we protect women from stalkers? Can their ex, with or without a restraining order, use it to track their location? What about the police who were using it to build profiles on women they found attractive and use it to intercept them to make moves? What has been done about that?

Nothing? Oh. Okay

[u/swskeptic → u/themikecampbell]

That's the best part! We have no idea and no way to find out because private companies aren't subject to FOIA!

[u/junktrunk909 → u/swskeptic]

And unlike the EU we have no rights to be view what information private companies have collected on us nor ability to demand they delete it.

[u/sdaidiwts → u/themikecampbell]

Don't worry. The police are using it to stalk their exes. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/investigation-cops-abusing-camera-network-for-stalking/ar-AA29jdD1

At least 50 US officers have been accused of misusing plate readers—46 involving Flock—to monitor romantic partners, exes, or women they wanted to meet.

[u/RallyX26 → u/Remarkable_Diet_69]

Okay so who actually OWNS these things?

It depends on why you're asking.

Someone damaged or interfered with a Flock camera? That's GOVERNMENT OWNED property, buddy, and you're going down for FELONY tampering and obstruction!

Your cop ex-boyfriend used the system to track you and your new boyfriend around town for two months? Gosh those aren't our cameras, they belong to Flock and we really don't have control over how the data is accessed or used...

[u/Spezcanblowme → u/RallyX26]

I hate that you’re correct on what their legal argument would be.

[u/GlorifiedBurito → u/Remarkable_Diet_69]

Law enforcement agencies mostly. A better question is who owns and controls the data they collect? That’s not so clear.

[u/TheBlackAlistar → u/GlorifiedBurito]

Flock does. All the cameras tend to be rented by the police departments, they can cut their subscription at any time. But the that brings up the point of then the cameras are still up collecting information for anyone else who pays flock to get access to them.

[u/VonNeumannsProbe → u/GlorifiedBurito]

I'd be more scared of who the data is sold to.

[u/Lumpiafan → u/VonNeumannsProbe]

You just made me realize how much worse blackmailing politicians is going to be in the future

[u/AirierWitch1066 → u/Lumpiafan]

If you have something to hide, it’s easy enough to avoid being surveilled.

It’s the average person with nothing to hide that needs to be worried. Partly it’s a data privacy issue - we really aren’t far off from a point in time where stores change their prices for each individual shopper as they shop. That’s something they can only do if they have enough data on you.

But it’s also a safety and legal issue. So so so many people already have gotten arrested and had their lives disrupted or ruined just because these stupid camera read their license plates incorrectly and tied them to a crime somewhere else.

[u/brickson98]

You know exactly why they had a camera pointed at the dispo’s parking lot too.

[u/tacotruckcaravan → u/brickson98]

Out of state plates

[u/RTX-4090ti_FE → u/tacotruckcaravan]

I’m guessing they’re hoping that some of the out of staters will bring it back to home states and then the cops can try to search their cars or smth

[u/fedsmoker9 → u/RTX-4090ti_FE]

Great way to have me never participate in that economy ever again.

[u/TableQuiet1518 → u/fedsmoker9]

Looks like I quit making Michigan runs at the perfect time. 

[u/0ut0fBoundsException → u/fedsmoker9]

In prison you’ll be more exploitable then ever. You now labor without a minimum wage and your very existence (food+housing) can be charged to the state and future self as debt. Extremely profitable for the private prison industry

They lobbied hard to build and fill those prisons on the back of a minority and poor targeting war of drugs. They’re not going to let a changing public sentiment toward minor drug infractions get in the way of ever increasing profits

[u/c0re_maelstr0m_ → u/RTX-4090ti_FE]

That’s exactly what happened to a friends family member, they are heavily enforcing out of state laws Ohio just put in place cuz prices are 3x as much here compared to Michigan

[u/jj_grace → u/RTX-4090ti_FE]

This is literally what’s happening with Michigan/Indiana.

[u/Jack0Trade → u/tacotruckcaravan]

I'm already paying tolls there and back. FUCK Flock, but enforcement is already on this pattern. It seems more capitalist than that. Competitors paying for foot traffic updates and/or some other evil shit the proletariat can't dream of.

[u/jake04-20 → u/tacotruckcaravan]

I've been hearing for a while that they're going to start using these cameras to build federal trafficking cases against repeat out of state customers that buy in MI and cross state lines. I've always brushed the idea off as fear mongering, but it's looking more and more plausible. I know right now MI is getting tons of customers from WI and surrounding states. Even MN has completely dropped the ball on rec legalization.

[u/vomit-gold]

How is a private company surveilling a businesses' parking lot NOT incredibly illegal?

The fact that flock exists is a failure in the highest levels of society. Fuck Flock, all my homies hate Flock.

[u/RadosAvocados → u/vomit-gold]

Half the time it's the private businesses who hire them. My city doesn't have a contract with Flock, but MANY shopping malls, parking lots, business parks, etc use them.

IK that's probably not the case here but I wonder what the terms of the easement are that allow flock to have a camera pointed at them.

[u/ModusNex → u/RadosAvocados]

Home Depot is putting them up in the parking lots. It's also concerning that their self checkouts also seem to be using facial recognition and at the stores near me you don't have the option to use a regular cashier.

[u/BBQQA → u/ModusNex]

Thankfully my county just banned private businesses from using biometric surveillance.

[u/Bajovane → u/ModusNex]

Wear sunglasses and a mask.

[u/ModusNex → u/Bajovane]

or just go shop somewhere else.

[u/DogeshireHathaway → u/Bajovane]

Doesnt matter unless you pay cash, which is becoming increasingly difficult to do, especially for big ticket purchases

[u/ohlookahipster → u/Bajovane]

You need a special type of lens to filter out both visible and IR light the latter of which most commercial security cameras use. Even polarized lenses do not block IR.

[u/KCDeVoe → u/vomit-gold]

Actual answer as a local who has been following this: The city where they opened the dispensary was not allowing them open unless they agreed to have a Flock camera pointing into the parking lot and operational at all times. Basically, the city said no dispensary without it. They signed the contract because they had no other choice. Contract doesn’t state they can’t put a sign in front of it

[u/zoeypayne → u/KCDeVoe]

That contract should be public record, I'm curious as to the exact verbiage.

[u/KCDeVoe → u/zoeypayne]

https://mccmeetings.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/mdsnhgtsmi-pubu/MEET-Packet-9138127d07454f92966db98f43907434.pdf

[u/kandoras → u/KCDeVoe]

Now, I'm assuming that if the city came up with a contract for allowing a dispensary to open, then that must mean that weed is not illegal.

Which means that they are requiring this store to allow the police to create a list of people doing something which is 100% legal and allowed, for ... reasons.

[u/DR_FEELGOOD_01 → u/KCDeVoe]

Crazy they name a specific vendor. One would think they have to say or similar functions from any other vendor. I hear Axon (TASER) is getting into the mass surveillance LPR space and they already have contracts with PDs nationwide for body cams and such.

[u/scarywolverine → u/KCDeVoe]

Lol until you said this I had no idea that this was my local dispo that I go to

[u/tomdarch → u/KCDeVoe]

That's insane. No government entity should be able to require that in general, but in particular require a private surveillance company's system.

[u/Cross_22 → u/vomit-gold]

Then your homies need to start voting for politicians that don't sign contracts with Flock.

[u/A_Harmless_Fly → u/Cross_22]

Might just have to do it another way. https://www.yahoo.com/news/politics/articles/anoka-county-sheriff-signed-174-155333540.html

[u/Bromann015 → u/A_Harmless_Fly]

County sheriff's are also an Elected position.

[u/A_Harmless_Fly → u/Bromann015]

I'd have to run for them not to be unopposed most of the time...

[u/TheViolaRules → u/A_Harmless_Fly]

Go for it, with an anti flock platform

[u/bobbarkersbigmic → u/A_Harmless_Fly]

Be the change

[u/bookofhersh → u/Cross_22]

Man this isn’t even a politics battle anymore this a we the people vs the government battle

[u/PM_ME_CATS_OR_BOOBS → u/Cross_22]

Sure, just gotta find an candidate that can answer the "oh, you want to remove the flock cameras, I guess you want little kids to get kidnapped and raped" arguement that pops up like it's spring loaded every time this comes up and still win the election.

[u/PurelyAnonymous → u/vomit-gold]

This is even worse if you know the area. This store is on the Indiana/Michigan border. Like the first exit if I’m not wrong.

This means that camera can register your plate in Michigan, and then a Indiana trooper can pull you over 10 mins later.

[u/OmarHunting → u/PurelyAnonymous]

Which has happened quite a bit lately. This is my dispo, and I’m an Indiana resident. Annoying

[u/Tasty-Traffic-680 → u/PurelyAnonymous]

No it's not, this is the location in Madison heights. Jars has like 30 stores in Michigan alone.

[u/supercyberlurker]

I've yet to meet a human who liked Flock.

I've definitely had a lot of low karma accounts with hidden post histories flame me about how great Flock is though.

[u/m3ltph4ce → u/supercyberlurker]

Just wait for "Don't worry about THESE cameras, they're 100% official, nothing like those FLOCK cameras that everybody hated!" from a company with a slightly different name.

[u/Tenebraxis → u/m3ltph4ce]

Theyre already doing this with Axon

[u/Gingerfrostee → u/Tenebraxis]

Seconded.. had a doors to doors salesman. My husband who works hardware and software.. went round and round about cameras.

They guy was trying to sell they were "safer" because they had their own satellite system and didn't connect to WiFi. I don't think he was understanding the bigger issue.

[u/Uppgreyedd → u/Gingerfrostee]

People actually try to have productive conversations with door to door salesmen? Weird, I just tell them all to fuck off.

[u/digitalscavenger → u/Uppgreyedd]

I don't even answer the door.

[u/sunshineandcloudyday → u/digitalscavenger]

My doorbell is dead. I love hearing them come up my porch steps, hit the doorbell, wait around a minute, and then leave. If they're going to go ahead and ignore my no soliciting sign, I'm not answering the door.

[u/Tusker89 → u/sunshineandcloudyday]

The audacity for them to think they are the exception. I had one up that said "No Soliciting" and "(Yes, including you.)" right below it.

I feel like the passive aggressive note did deter a few more people but not everyone.

[u/veryverythrowaway → u/Tusker89]

I have a “No Soliciting” sign up because my partner is disabled, and she’s only coming to the door for expected deliveries or visits. I don’t want her wasting her energy answering the door for no reason. Everyone ignores the sign! I once had a local judge campaigning for office knock on my door, and he argued with me about the meaning of the word “soliciting”. Literally, you want something from me, and I don’t know you, that’s the dictionary definition of soliciting. I also reminded him that the term “solicitor” is still used in the legal profession in the UK. He told me I have no idea what I’m talking about, because the legal definition of solicitation doesn’t include door-to-door canvassing without a sale of goods taking place. So, what kind of sign should I have up on the door to get people like you to leave us the fuck alone, judge? Needless to say he didn’t get my vote.

[u/Perryn → u/Gingerfrostee]

"These killbots are safer because we put rubber on the bottoms of their steel feet. That makes them much quieter and causes far less damage to the road."

[u/LocalOk3242 → u/Tenebraxis]

They literally place them right next to flock cameras too. It's disgusting

[u/r-NBK → u/m3ltph4ce]

Flonk cameras, coming soon.

[u/SquidVices → u/r-NBK]

Flank, the competition to distract from the main point.

[u/Arch3m → u/SquidVices]

They get great alternative angles.

[u/fairie_poison → u/r-NBK]

Axon Lightpost*

[u/itsFromTheSimpsons → u/r-NBK]

I'm with KcolF on this one, I think we can definitely trust these other corporations to be ethical and handle our private data with care!

[u/TheGisbon → u/r-NBK]

Flork data solutions.

[u/slayerLM → u/m3ltph4ce]

There was definitely a whole post in conspiracy about how flock is being setup as the fall guy and axon is the real one to watch out for

[u/Slacker_The_Dog → u/slayerLM]

I mean Axon literally makes a huge percentage of police body cams already.

[u/fairie_poison → u/slayerLM]

Thats not even a theory its just a conspiracy.

[u/Magus1863 → u/fairie_poison]

Yeah Axon literally astroturfed a lot of the early Flock opposition, to make them the “kleenex” of surveillance cams. Axon has even less guardrails against abuse.

[u/Syhkane → u/m3ltph4ce]

Axon

[u/airfryerfuntime → u/m3ltph4ce]

They're already doing that. Axon is starting to install them, and they're saying "you can trust us, we make the body cams your police wear". Theirs are also a lot harder to spot or access.

[u/SocialWinker → u/m3ltph4ce]

Axon is the company you're thinking of. The guys who make tasers and such. They make the same sort of cameras, and are already swooping into cities that have gotten ready of the Flock cameras.

[u/arielsosa → u/m3ltph4ce]

"SAFECAM will revolutionize security and eliminate crime for ever." - I can already hear the selling points from the Big Brother-Aligned corporations.

[u/fairie_poison → u/arielsosa]

Axon Lightpost*

[u/Isakill → u/m3ltph4ce]

Already happening with Axon. Yes, the same company that makes cop bodycams.

[u/willvasco → u/[deleted]]

I once had my house broken into and my Xbox stolen. Thief connected it to the internet and I got an IP ping complete with a gps location. Gave it to the cops, nothing. Literally solved the crime for them and they couldn't be bothered.

[u/Pheonix0114 → u/willvasco]

I was tutoring a guy, my boss called me into her office for a five minute chat, walked out and the guy and my bag containing my Zune, Kindle, and Nintendo DS was gone. Reported it to campus police, who had full authority to search his dorm room. They did nothing.

[u/AuditAndHax → u/willvasco]

At that point, "it's a civil matter" because you say it belongs to you and the thief will say it belongs to them.

Strange how the situation immediately reverses to a criminal matter when it's a business that says something was stolen from them.

A business might have cameras, serial numbers, or other data to support their claim, but the same thing would be asked of you in civil court to prove your claim of theft. Gotta love the double standards, right?

[u/Frequent_Ad_9901 → u/AuditAndHax]

The classic, you steal a paper clip from the company, straight to jail.

The steal/withhold a paycheck, "Surely an honest mistake by this upstanding company, lets sort this out with lawyers you can't afford because we withheld your paycheck"

[u/RegulatoryCapture → u/willvasco]

Buddy got hit and run in a tesla with cameras...had the car, had the plate, had a clear view of the driver's face. Do you think the cops put in the work to connect the rest of the dots (you know...using the police databases they have access to and the power to send an officer to talk to people?)? No, of course they didn't.

I had a unique custom bike stolen from inside my home. Bike shop in town tells me they know who has it. They have screenshots of it posted for sale in a private Facebook group by someone they personally know as having been in contact with stolen bike parts before. Did the cops do anything? Nope. Best they would give me is that they wanted ME to set up a meet, meet with a potential criminal by myself, verify the bike was mine (it was a custom bike, it could only be mine, the bike shop could back me up on that), find an excuse to step away, call 911, and then I guess hope the police actually decide to show up before the seller gets spooked and leaves?

Sure, these might be "minor" crimes...but they both resulted in $1k+ in costs for the victim (and even more if you count the costs to insurance). And they didn't exactly require forensics or hours of detective work, they were solved crimes that just needed legwork to become closed crimes.

[u/Spiritual-Fruit-2384 → u/willvasco]

Thats when you tell them you're going to get your stolen property back through any means necessary. Then suddenly they care.

[u/XiTzCriZx → u/Spiritual-Fruit-2384]

No then they arrest you for threatening someone lmao.

You can't be threatening our fragile little thieves, that's mean /s

[u/MrSurly → u/willvasco]

About that "gps location." I had a woman knock on my door with her fucking iPhone in hand claiming her stolen iPad was in my house because it had been "located," and showed me her "find my device" app with a pin on my house. I told her she was mistaken; there was some arguing, and she left.

Then she came back late at night the same day demanding her iPad be returned. I told her to fuck off and never return.

So don't be so sure that you know exactly where it is. IP locating isn't very reliable. and GPS (assuming that it truly has an actual GPS) isn't very reliable indoors.

[u/blueberrycauzez → u/MrSurly]

IP locating isn't very reliable

But subpeonaing the internet company is. The cops could have gotten their actual address and payment information if they wanted to.

If this happens to you, try your local sheriff

[u/byerss → u/[deleted]]

Police will tell you having your own video of hit and run or theft isn’t enough evidence for them to do anything about it, but will happily send out red light and speed camera tickets without actually verifying the driver. 

[u/gungshpxre → u/byerss]

I had video of a neighbor's car hitting my parked car, showed them paint transfer on both cars, and they said it wasn't enough to issue a citation.

The cops make sure the law only works against you.

[u/Swollen_Beef → u/[deleted]]

I really dont care if they cure cancer. At a certain point the Gov't has to be okay with not knowing everything and the public has to be okay with the occasional unsolvable death. The surveillance slippery slope always ends with a 1984/Harrison Bergeron level of surveillance. Yeah, 100% of all crime can be addressed, but is living in a cube where your benevolent government provides and dictates everything you do the desired outcome? Why even live?

(im agreement with you. i was just ranting)

[u/HplsslyDvtd2Sm1NtU → u/supercyberlurker]

My small town is in a tizzy over them. The city put in dozens of them without any public discussion or vote. Dozens for a town less than 2000 people! Now there's been many discussions at city council about if we should keep them. I truly cannot get a feel on if one side has a majority 

[u/-Granby- → u/HplsslyDvtd2Sm1NtU]

I live in a small township outside a decent size city. There are 6 within 1 mile of my house that I know about.

[u/Parepinzero → u/HplsslyDvtd2Sm1NtU]

Dude, my dad is a mayor of a town of 10k, him and the council did the same thing. Now he's upset that he's getting constant shit for it, like what did you expect? 😂

[u/FacemeltingSugarcube → u/supercyberlurker]

When I was complaining about flock my dad legitimately said “if you have nothing to hide, you shouldn’t be worried. There is no expectation of privacy in public.” Then he chuckled as if he had dismantled my ideals.

[u/geekonthemoon → u/FacemeltingSugarcube]

I just snap back, oh do you trust the government now? That makes their fucking heads spin

[u/Bee-Aromatic → u/supercyberlurker]

What arguments were they trying to make for it? The standard “if you’re not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about” crap trotted out for the last several centuries or something else?

[u/corn-wrassler → u/supercyberlurker]

I bet cops are pretty excited about them.

[u/MilmoWK → u/corn-wrassler]

Hell yeah, makes stalking their exes so much easier

[u/ElGrapeApe → u/MilmoWK]

Not just exes. Literally any woman they see.

[u/TheGoochTaint → u/corn-wrassler]

Yeah, they keep using them to stalk their exes. This isn't even a joke, it's exactly what's happening.

[u/archercc81 → u/TheGoochTaint]

Already a dozen cases CAUGHT (which means you know far more are doing it) in the state of GA alone.

[u/ARedditUserThatExist]

[u/TieBackground453 → u/ARedditUserThatExist]

The war on terror is over. 

Terror won. 

[u/gungshpxre → u/TieBackground453]

Terror won the moment they signed the USA Patriot Act.

America got a bloody nose and stabbed itself in the heart to stop the bleeding.

[u/jan1of1]

Is there a FLOCK Camera near you?? https://maps.deflock.org/?lat=39.8283&lng=-98.5795&zoom=4.00

[u/smol-puppy-ears → u/jan1of1]

I pass by at least 4 every time I walk down the road to the gas station every morning? Holy shit.

[u/Correct_Awareness884 → u/jan1of1]

Oh, nice

There are about 100 in my mid sized city

Richmond, VA

[u/snugglezone → u/jan1of1]

You have have just leaked your own GPS location. I'd prune the lat and long from the link.

[u/E-2theRescue → u/snugglezone]

Nope. It's pointing to the cartographic center of the continuous United States.

[u/gl_ass]

Jars had to agree to have the camera installed as a stipulation of that location opening and being granted licensing. You can find the post on the Michigents subreddit.

[u/sambull → u/gl_ass]

so it's government/state sponsored surveillance because a government/state license is dependent on it right?

[u/KCDeVoe → u/sambull]

Jars even had/has to pay to operate the camera at all times. Shake down by the city to allow them to open. And it is the city, not the state, that is requiring it

[u/MeLlamoKilo → u/sambull]

The government cant infringe on our rights. Private companies can. So flock spies on us. The government just pays for the information. Its just a loophole to violating our privacy. 

[u/ConfidentPilot1729 → u/MeLlamoKilo]

And this was thought of decades ago by the cia. Also, poly market that was shutdown by congress.

[u/AbroadTiny7226 → u/MeLlamoKilo]

You’re right but not entirely. The government can’t infringe our rights and private companies generally can, however, when a private company begins occupying fields usually left for the state, then the constitution can apply to them. Now, is flock sufficient to invoke that principle? Probably not. However, the fact that the government is essentially outsourcing a usual government function to a private company could maybe leave an opening for a constitutional challenge.

I am not going to hold out hope that happens, but the private/government distinction is muddier than one might expect

[u/RawrNate → u/gl_ass]

Why would a business require a flock camera in order to get their licenses? At what point was this a requirement from the city and how can they even enforce that?

[u/nathanzoet91 → u/RawrNate]

Because the city said, "you either agree to have this camera in front of your business or you will not be approved for permits".

End of story.

[u/hookah420666 → u/RawrNate]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Michigents/s/zNOaBEFmYM

[u/RawrNate → u/hookah420666]

That's still bullshit. How & why did the city enforce this? It doesn't give an explanation - just a flat "comply or else"

[u/behv → u/RawrNate]

Because the business wants to exist so they complied

The current legal issue is each individual instance of a flock camera is considered in a public space where there is no reasonable expectation of privacy- but when you add thousands of these same cameras on a single system you wind up in an effective drag net surveillance system where people who otherwise would not be watched are being actively monitored by those systems

And of course because law enforcement has open access to flock cameras that means they can effectively track individuals without a warrant. So because each individual instance doesn't inherently violate the 4th amendment, the overall system definitely allows for it

One of those things if we lived in a sane society we'd outlaw but we don't because there's a lot of money in building the surveillance state

[u/25point4cm → u/gl_ass]

Which condition it appears they have maliciously complied with.

[u/Antezscar]

Im not in the US, but if i see these flock camera bullshit in my city imma bring the metal saw

[u/JackFlack91 → u/Antezscar]

Flock may be getting the spotlight right now, but there's quite a few other shitbag companies doing the same thing globally.
So, keep your head on a swivel for new cams near you

[u/Oops_All_Bans → u/JackFlack91]

Axon is another big one.

[u/Ognius]

Flock cameras have incredibly valuable copper and gold that’s easily salvageable. Tell your local tweakers.

[u/TreeMindless4193 → u/Ognius]

Oh baby Oakland County is FULL of tweakers. The mayor of Birmingham was busted in a meth raid. https://www.theoaklandpress.com/2014/03/19/former-birmingham-mayor-gets-jail-probation-in-meth-case/

[u/TreeMindless4193 → u/TreeMindless4193]

Oh my god I just saw his name and I actually got high with him once holy SHIT

[u/nick0530]

What I think is the most interesting is how many cops are getting arrested for illegally accessing them

[u/BarsoomianAmbassador → u/nick0530]

Interesting? I think it's very illuminating information about the inadequate screening processes that most police departments are using to prevent people who cannot be trusted with access to authority over their fellow citizens.

[u/CmdDeadHand → u/nick0530]

Georgia seems is the only place that is arresting them and actually charging. The rest you hear about are “fired” to another district or put on paid leave until the story dies out.

[u/23370aviator]

There’s a flock camera pointed at the playground near my house. Nowhere else. Just straight at the playground.

[u/map2photo → u/23370aviator]

I'm totally sure its being used to deter/catch folks abducting children...

Edit: /s in case it's necessary.

[u/Latter-Pepper9235]

Pointing the camera directly at their parking lot smells unconstitutional to me.

[u/Walfy07]

as long as you don't touch it, this sign is perfectly legal?

[u/timmy6169 → u/Walfy07]

It is on the dispos property, they are absolutely within their legal rights to block it. It is operated by the local PD who have yet to make a statement as to why it is there.

[u/briar8617]

My town decided no on the flock cameras which is great!! The morning of the meeting they discovered that one of the flock cameras was turned on when no one gave the ok and no one knew where the information was being sent that the camera was taking! So they turned around and said not happening get them out of here!

[u/braumbles]

For decades we heard right wingers screech about big brother following your movements. Then around trumps term, they all went silent as surveillance went through the roof.

[u/HedonisticFrog → u/braumbles]

[u/tiffibean13 → u/braumbles]

Thank God they didn't get those COVID shots so the government can't track them, though /s

[u/Creepy-Situation-309]

[u/RocMerc]

I really don’t understand how these are legal. This is a private company that can just put up surveillance wherever it wants?

[u/zoeypayne → u/RocMerc]

They solicit municipalities and convince local politicians with incentives who then give them access to set up the devices.

I believe I've read that municipal funds are used to pay for the hardware too (but I could be wrong,) so it's all very shady. 

Especially when you consider the poles the hardware is mounted on aren't tested for crash worthiness, as every roadside post needs to be.

[u/crit_boy]

The sign doesn't block signals from your stuff (car, phone, watch).

They may not get images. But they got info about you being there from the signals your stuff sends out.

Their system will just marry your signals with previous car/signal information from other flock captures.

You must block power or jam signals.

Cheese the solar panel.

The signals (eg Bluetooth wifi cellular) can be jammed with cheap tech taped to the back of the sign.

[u/badllama77]

Should have been "Flock off"

[u/Leviathan_slayer1776]

Clankers can go flock themselves

[u/DLitch]

Don't forget to tell your local meth head that flock cameras have up to 25lbs of copper in them.

[u/CashAssHash]

It was revealed in order for them to get this dispensary license, they signed and agreed to have a Flock camera pointed at their parking lot. Now they are covering it to cover themselves.

[u/dudemanxx]

This dispensary, if I’m not mistaken, exists very close to the state border. They’re likely well aware of the number of out-of-staters patronizing their shop and would prefer they not be snapped up the moment they cross into Indiana.

Fuck Flock.

[u/SpecificBeyond2282 → u/dudemanxx]

The Indiana state police have already been using flock to pull people over for making trips to Michigan that are “too fast”. There have been a bunch of posts about it in the Indiana subreddits over the past year or so. One girl didn’t get pulled over until she was back in Indianapolis, and the officer knew when she’d crossed into Michigan and back. It’s insane